Ep. 47 | Getting Legal in Your Business with Kailey Jacomet

Contracts, trademarks, oh my!

On today’s episode, we’re chatting with Kailey Jacomet. She’s answering all of your questions when it comes to getting legal in your business. We’re talking all things contracts, trademarks, entities and more!

The legal parts of your business are some of the most stressful and overwhelming parts of starting and owning a business. Don’t let this be something you put on the back burner. Kailey is sharing so many awesome tips including the exact clauses you should have in your contract! 

Be sure to tune in for all of her amazing insight!

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Transcript

spk_0:   0:07
Welcome to the frame your way. Photography podcasts. I'm your host, Brooke Jefferson. I'm a wife, Mama to two and full time photographer and business coach. I created this podcast with the aspiring photographer in mind to bring you inspiring stories. Strategies to help you go from zero to multiple figures and tips and tricks to help you get one step closer. Toe work. Life harmony. Are you ready to frame your way to your dream career? Let's die, then. Okay. Today I'm so excited to introduce you guys thio someone who is going to talk about your most popular questions when it comes to getting legal in your business, contracts, trademarks, all the things. So I want to go ahead and hand it off to Kaylie, and I'm gonna let her introduce herself.

spk_1:   1:01
Hi, Brooke. Thank you so much for having me. My name again is Kaylie Jack. Me and I am a business attorney. I practice as a trial attorney for years. And then when I was expecting my daughter, I decided to go out on my own so I could be more flexible. So now I have a trademark practice that's called Brand LA Boutique, and I have another business contract. Ista, worry, offer attorney draft after client contracts in different niches. So we have a client contracts for coaches, virtual assistants and photographers.

spk_0:   1:32
I love that I'm super excited to check your stuff out. I know for me, I have contracts in place and I know we're gonna get into all of that. But it's always nice to update things, and that's definitely one of my 2020 focuses, so unexcited to check out your contract shop. But I want to go ahead and hand the mic over to you. I know we're gonna dive into a lot of questions that photographers have when they're starting their business or when they've been doing it for so long. When they figure out, wait a second. I'm actually a legitimate business, but I am not legal, so I want to hand it over to you. And I think first thing that we are going to dive into is the entity. What should we be a sole proprietor or an LLC? So I'll let you have Mike.

spk_1:   2:22
Yes. Okay, so first, let's talk about what these two terms mean. So usually in a photography business you're choosing between being a sole proprietor and an NLC. These air types of business entities Ah, corporation is another type of business entity, but probably not appropriate for most. You know, small photography business is so just to focus on the sole proprietor versus L. L. C. You are a sole proprietor automatically. When you start doing business in commerce selling service's or goods, you don't need to do anything to become a sole proprietor. You just are one automatically. Once you start offering your photography service is so your state or even your local county may require that you register your business or get a business license, depending on where you're located. But that is just to comply with your regulations in your state. Doing so doesn't make you a sole proprietor. So if you are operating as the sole proprietor and you hadn't registered, but your state required you to, you're still a sole proprietor. You just didn't follow that rule, whereas an L. L C stands for a limited liability company, and that is a totally separate entity that you create when you form it with your state. And this is all state by state, so the LLC doesn't exist at all until you go and you file 2 to 4 minal See with your secretary of state. Um, now the advantage to doing so is you create a business that is separate from yourself. So when you are acting as a sole propriety, some prior sorry silver brighter providing photography service is there's no separation between you and your business. So if your business is sued, they could potentially come after your personal assets so your house could be on the line. All of your personal assets could be subject to judgments against your business, more deaths against your business and then vice versa. A lot of people don't consider the opposite that if you have a thriving business. And let's say you have a lot of equipment that your business owns, or perhaps you own a studio, so you have substantial business assets and you are certain sued personally. If you're a sole proprietor, they can go after your business assets, which is something that you definitely want to protect against. So the advantage of forming Elsie is that you separate these out on, and you have you have protection there insulation from liability in either direction. Now for tax purposes. If you are a single member LLC, so you are the only owner of your business than for tax purposes. You're treated the exact same way as a sole proprietor. So the LLC is a it's called a pass through entity. If you're a single member LLC and all of your profit is just going to go straight on to your personal income tax return, and that actually makes things a lot more simple. So you don't need to file taxes separately for your LoC. So coming back to the question of okay, if you're just starting out, do you need

spk_0:   5:23
to be coming? L. L

spk_1:   5:24
C Can you just operate as a sole proprietor and become an LoC later on? Or do you ever need to be an LLC? It really comes down to in terms of, ah, legal requirement. You're not required to be in L. C. So you could certainly, you know, run a photography business as a sole proprietor. But it's all about risk mitigation. So in any business, whether it's you know, photography or you're selling goods or any other service, the decision to become an LLC is about mitigating your risk and really, it's a simple as looking at how likely am I to be sued? And the higher that Rick is, the more you want to go, you know Foreman Loc. So what I usually say is, you know, look at factors like, um, do you have people coming onto your property? Are you going onto other people's property whenever you're physically interacting with your clients? And you are, of course, as a photographer, um, you know, it behooves you. It just gives you more protection and mitigates the risk of, you know, physical accidents and things like that in negligence That can happen. So let's say something as simple as you have your equipment set up and your client trips over it and falls. Now, that doesn't mean that you are liable to them for damages. Um, you know, But sometimes it's as simple as you are sued, and now you need to represent yourself, and you never know how that's going to go. Um, negligence is the most common claim that, um, you know, that probably would be made against a photographer beyond we'll get into when we talk about contracts like copyright and things like that as two images, but in terms of other lawsuits against photographers, it would mostly be about money. So breach of contract copyright issues and then you know, some type of physical problems. So property damage or physical injury and all of those damage related issues of property damage or injuries are typically based on negligence. And so negligence means, just like when you're driving a car, Um, is when you do something that a reasonable person would not have if they were being careful and they were doing what they should do? So that's something that you can easily do accidentally. Um, you know. So these are all things to consider, and if you can afford it, I think it's always a good idea to go ahead and Foreman LLC, depending on where you're located, it maybe, you know, just $100 to register your LLC, or it could be several 100. Um, if that's a route that you want to take, you can either do it yourself. You can work with a C P A or you can work with an attorney. I think that a lot of people can do it on their own, but you certainly want to research. You know the requirements in your state. And it's usually with the Secretary of state in the state that you're located where your business is located, that you're going to register your LLC.

spk_0:   8:24
Yes, So that was really informative. And I'll be honest. I never thought about the opposite being personally suit and having someone come after my business. Now I hope that whatever happened, I think no one really thinks about these things. But that's what makes this so important is the fact that again you have to mitigate those risks. You've got plan for it. If you don't, you're gonna find yourself in a sticky situation. When I registered my business born LLC, the process was so easy that I was almost like That's it, that's all. Let it touch. I did go through my secretary of state. I am in Oklahoma, destroyer. Mind some of you guys and it cost me $85. That's great. Yes,

spk_1:   9:06
free. And you know this situation? What? You're just mentioning being sued personally. You know, some of us can't imagine what we would possibly be sued for, But how about something as simple as a car accident? We all drive every day you run a red light or you know, or something are you, um you know, you're involved in a motor vehicle accident, and someone has injuries that your insurance claim doesn't cover completely. And now you are suit. And so if you don't have the cash to pay for that in your sole proprietor, you know, they might go and liquidate the assets of your business. So that's your camera equipment and things like that to you satisfy that judgment?

spk_0:   9:43
Uh, that's so, so true, So important. So scary to think about. But that is why we have to protect ourselves. So thank you for the thorough education on that. I think everybody's clear at this point, and I think all photographers need to become LLC is at some point. That's just my opinion. Again, I'm not authorized to give you legal advice. I'm just letting you guys know I would say yes, because why not protect yourself? Especially like when you said, typically most states, it's about $100 out of your pocket. I will pay that again and again just to protect myself from, you know, possible shutting down my business. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. So thank you for that. That was that was awesome. And I no, that that kind of leads into into the contracts. But before we get there, I know you wanted to touch base on business names. So tell us what you have for that. Sure, Yes. So when

spk_1:   10:41
you go to register your LLC, or even if you're acting as a sole proprietor when you consider your business name, if you are operating your business in your personal name s so that could be, you know, even tacking on photography after that or something like that. Um, then you probably you don't have an issue with trademark infringement. Trademark infringement comes up if someone has a similar or identical name, but your personal name is not trademark herbal, so you don't really need to worry about that. When you register an loc, you could register it just in your in your personal name. Um, So, for example, I haven't l c. That's Kaylie Jack. May L L C. If you had a what's called a fictitious name or a assumed name, so you are, you know, creating a totally different name like, um, like the lovely photography studio or something like that, if you are so proprietor and that. But that's your business name, then you want to register that business name as a D B A, which is doing business as, um, and so that is something that is generally required. If you're going to open a business bank account in that, names of people can write checks to the business name rather than to you person. Really, you'll need to register that D. B A. It's also it's also relevant if you're forming and I'll see you might want the Elsie's name to be that fictitious name like the lovely Photography Studio LLC. Or you could even do your personal name. So, as I said, I have Kaylie, Jack, May L. L. C. And then I could have that business name the lovely photography studio as a d b A. Under my LLC. Um, and so what that does is like if you have different brands going on like let's say you have you offer photography service is, but now you're getting into education for other photographers, and so you have an online course and a membership in things like that, and maybe those have different names. So they could be other D B days within this umbrella. LLC.

spk_0:   12:43
Okay, good to know. That's actually a question. And I had for you and you answered it. So that's great. Okay, rule quick. Speaking of trademarks, because there are a few who photographers. I'm here for that. Listen, that do educate other photographers. So they do offer, maybe mentor ships or workshops or, I don't know, workshops. Your huge. That's probably the number one thing people are going to relate. Thio courses, memberships, all the things that you listed. Do they need to be trademarked? Every single one of them. And at what point do we need a trademark? What we offer

spk_1:   13:18
sure s O a trademark is, um, is an identify or so a trademark. It's something you have in your business, not something that you d'oh! So you register your trademark but your trademark. So, for example, Nike is a trademark. Just do it. The slogan is a trademark. The little check mark that you know of the design logo. That's another trademark. So in your business, you may already have trademarks. They may just be unregistered. So the first step is and This is when you're naming your business. When you're naming, of course, anything like that, you always. If you're not using your personal name, you always want to do a trademark search because even if you don't plan to register your own trademark, which is a choice, you're not required to register a trademark. But you need to make sure that you are not using a name that is similar to someone else or confusingly similar. So trademark law protects against even confusingly similar names so they don't need to be identical. It's just about how similar the names and how similar are the service's that are being offered. Um, so you want to make sure that you do a thorough trademark search to make sure that you are not infringing on someone else's name, because what can happen is you get a cease and desist letter in the mail, and then you have to re brand, and especially if you're building an audience. If you have a Facebook group email list, you know you're building brand awareness in anyway. You don't wanna have to go back to the drawing board and have people re identify with a new brand um, so you just want to do your due diligence ahead of time and then when it comes to, when should you register your trademark? That's a business decision more than a legal decision, But I would say whenever you are focused on building a brand, you know you're investing in brand awareness on. You want people to recognize your name and associate it with, you know, the service's and goods that you offer. Then you want to think about registering your trademark and my own slogan, and my trademark law firm has put a ring on it. So you're locking that name down so other people are not using it, and your potential customers are not getting confused about who's Who is this? Are these your service is? Or these, you know the service's of this other person. So

spk_0:   15:28
but when it comes to trademarking, whatever it is, we're doing a registering our trademark. Is this something we do on our own? Or is this something we can come to you for? How does that process work? Yeah,

spk_1:   15:40
so you can do it on your own. But you know, every trademark attorney on the planet will suggest that you don't you know? And that's not just And that's not just because we're buys, but, um and of course, I am bias. But, um, it's a very tedious process. And of the USPTO, which is the federal office that handles trademark registrations, is extremely nit picky about every detail. And it's not. Whereas I agree with you, that registered in your LLC is very simple and something you could do on your own. Registering a trademark is not. It needs to be in specific service is you need to make sure that the name is available again, not just identical names, but confusingly similar ones. So even if they're synonyms, you know, if someone is using similar synonyms or a phonetically, similar were different combinations of those words words. You could get a refusal based on that, and then you forfeit your whole application fee on, and then they're just many, many little nitpicky things that instead of even in situations where you could probably you know, they should allow you to just amend the application and move on with your life. They will just refuse it, and there are many things that cannot be amended, and so you just completely forfeit your filing fee. And so I would recommend definitely working with a trademark attorney on that, and it's a long process. It takes minimum of seven months to 12 months to register your trademark. And so when you're working with an attorney, they're dealing with the government attorney on your behalf. That whole time.

spk_0:   17:11
My goodness, I had no idea that all of that went in Thio registering your trademark. But I do know how important it is, especially because, like you said, the brand awareness So, you know, once we figure out exactly like what we're going to build on and what we're going to grow then, for instance, my podcasts, my podcast, could branch off too many other things. But because I'm committed to it, then therefore I probably need to register a trademark so very good points there. And I'm learning right along with you guys because I know half this stuff and the other stuff is brand new today. So that's why I'm so glad that you're on today. So I think that transition's US two contracts, which the famous questions are, do I need to have a contract? Can I write my own all the things. So school us on contracts?

spk_1:   18:10
Yes. I think a photographer's contract is the single most important legal aspect of their business. You know, be a sole proprietor, but have a good contract, you know, Whereas I would recommend that you be an LLC, this is absolutely the most important part of doing business as a photographer. So should you have a contract? Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. Yes. There are so many things in your contract that are absolutely vital not just to protect you, but to have a good relationship with your clients and then to deal with things like copyright assignment. So a contract is not just not just simply about legal protection, but the words in your contract have an actual function outside of the document itself. So, for example, for a photographer, you're going to have a whole section on intellectual property and copyright, and in that section, weaken. Go into that a little bit. You are going to extend to your client a license, a limited license to use the photos for their personal use or for commercial use. And so you basically, you know, let's say that you do someone's wedding. You do all of their photography for their wedding. And you don't have a contractor. You have a contract that's missing this part. So then you retain all of the copyright to those those photographs. And your client does not have any rights to print or you know or reproduce in any way their own wedding photographs. Which, of course, there was almost no point in working with you in that case, right? Eso these air really important things that are not gonna happen automatically. They only happen in the contract. So writing, I have this analogy, that writing contract, this kind of like writing code for a website. So when you're writing code and I I am not a tech savvy person back in the day, I dabbled a little bit like HTML code, which is like the simplest code that ever existed. But, you know, I'm hitting the preview button to see, like, okay, that did that center my title, um, and things like that. And so what you're writing and code actually does something, you know, it has a function, and that's just like a contract. And if you don't know what you're doing when you're trying to write code you're going to You're not gonna get the result that you want, and it's the same thing with a contract. Whereas when you're when you are trying to dabble in code, you have that preview button. There's no preview button with a contract, so you don't know what you have there. You know, you essentially hit publish when you sign a contract with a client and you don't know what you have there until you put it up to the test on. And that only happens when you're already knee deep in legal problems and you can't change it. At that point, you can't revise it at that point. So yes, very important toe. Have a contract, and, you know that would lead me into just like I should not be trusted to go right. Java code for anybody. You probably don't want to be writing your own contract if you don't know what you're doing. Um, you know now, certainly, I think the best situation is that you hire a local attorney in your jurisdiction to draft a custom contract for you. That's always going to be the best. The best way of doing it, um, a happy medium. And this is what I offered. My own business is an attorney drafted client contract template. And so it's a template that includes all of the, you know, boilerplate, the legalese. Um, you know that copy paste language. But you know that it's specifically for, you know, wedding photography or specifically for a portrait photography, and that's going to protect you, and then you can customize it for your business or each client that you work with. So just to get into, I know that we're a little limited on time, but just to get into some of the most important clauses that should be in your contract. So first of all scope of service is, Or you could also call this, like, package details. This is where you specifically state. How long is the shoot going to be? How many? How many photos are images? Are they going to get like, what format are those images going to be in if you're doing the wedding? Um, does that include like a, um I'm blanking on what the bridal album Does it include a bridal up? Things like that. You want to be really specific in your wedding package. If you're going to be doing photos of like, you know, the bride getting ready or the rehearsal dinner or the after after party, or like the morning brunch the next day, you want to include that very, very specifically in your contract, and this is also true. You know the same details that would be applicability for portrait photography. Then you want to really be specific about the venue address and times and things like that because you don't This is basically to protect you. So if you you know, let's say that you didn't have any of this written down and the bride told you be at this place at this time, um, and you followed her instruction. But then she says, I told you you needed to be here an hour earlier or something. You wanna have a document that you refer back to that clearly stated all of those details on that both both of you signed. So let's see, of course, terms of payment, like taking a deposit and then the terms in which you would potentially refund that deposit or if you won't refund that deposit for any reason you want to state that very clearly you're over time travel expenses, things like that. So then getting into, let's see copyright ownership. So this is really important. Like I said So typically, the stand industry standard is that a photographer would retained the copyright to all the images they produce. So that means, you know, of course, you have your water mark on your on your photographs. And ultimately, the final ownership always stays with you is basically what that means. But if you are doing, you know, wedding photography or let's see newborn our senior photos or something like that. Generally you are extending to them a limited license for their personal use. And this is language that you want a state, because it's not gonna happen automatically. This permission, you know, is granted through your contract, so it's really important to have it there. If you start doing commercial photography, that's, you know it's a whole other beast. That means that they are going to be. You know, a company possibly is going to be reproducing these photos, publishing them elsewhere, selling them possibly and things like that. So then you want in extended license for commercial purposes, and that's different language. So let's see, I'm just going through my contract right here to see Okay, So cancelation really, really important. You want to be, you know, dive into a cz much detail in this section as possible. And so in my contract templates, I call the section postponement, cancellation and termination of agreement. So it's really good to, you know, think about all the worst case scenarios and also the timing of anything that could happen. And let's say it's 30 days out from a wedding, and, um and they canceled the wedding. If so, they're not getting married anymore. And so you want to plan in advance? Okay? What are we going to, you know? Are you are you're going to forfeit your deposit? Are you going to owe any ad, other additional payment, things like that? If they're going to reschedule the wedding, let's say three months before the wedding, they decide that they're going to postpone it for six months. Well, of course. You know, hopefully you're very busy on your planning. Your calendar out, you know well in advance. And that could be a conflict for you. So you wanna have a clause where you deal with that situation, too. So if they're going to reschedule, they need to give you a certain amount of notice. And if you are available on the rescheduled date, you can agree to, you know, still still photograph their wedding. Or you may decide to include in your in your contract that you know if you're if you're not available or you're not willing to reschedule that, they forfeit their deposit, plus a certain a certain amount of money. In addition, um, if they don't give you enough notice, you may include in your contract that they are going to owe you the full contract price. Let's say you do a wedding for $4000 I don't know if that's a normal amount of river wedding, but, um, and then they canceled two weeks in advance. It would be pretty normal on that. They owe you that whole $4000 now, even though you didn't render any service is because you are no longer able to fill that weekend spot with another wedding. Of course, there's no one's gonna hire you to do their wedding two weeks in advance, so that's really important. Another thing that people might not think about is, um so safety and harassment, Hopefully, this doesn't come up for you. But if you are at a wedding and, like people are drinking and people you know start like if they physically assault you or verbally assault you or something like that, you should include language in your contract that if that happens, you can leave the event and at no, you know, at at no penalty to you and also include that you know, that determination is within your discretion. So you're not later having an argument of, Oh, that wasn't, really, you know, harassing comment or you didn't you weren't really assaulted. That will be fact specific if it comes up, but that you're including in your contract, that it's in your discretion to to determine if you've been harassed on and have the rightto leave. So there's a really important things. Um, let's see also insurance. It's typical in a contract for photographers to say that you maintain business insurance, and I definitely recommend that you do do that on and then another really important clauses is called force majeure. And that just means if there is a tornado or an act of God or there's a flood and we all need to get on the ark again, or something like that, that you that they are agreeing that you are not going to be responsible for not being able to photograph their event because it was beyond your control and then a couple of their things. Limitation of liability. This is a really, really important clause to have in your contract, and this is one of the one of the most difficult clauses I would say to draft, so I wouldn't recommend that you tried to d I Y. This. But limitation of liability basically means that you and your client are agreeing upfront what your maximum liability would be even if you mess up. So let's say, um, and I'm trying to think of, Ah, hypothetical here. Let's say, um, that you agreed that you were going to provide the final images to your client within, like, a month after the wedding or something like that. And then let's say that they had I am totally making this up. Let's say they had some kind of contract lined up that they were going to like be on TV for some newlyweds show, and they had to, like, submit their wedding images or something like that. And now they don't have them because you are late. And so what I'm getting at is that's something that most people would not reasonably anticipate. Like, you're not gonna You're not gonna guess that ahead of time. And it's so this it's this domino effect. So you innocently messed up on. Maybe you did breach the contract. Maybe you're two weeks later. Something like that. It does violate the contract, but it creates this, like, Cascade Domino effect for your client. So they have damages that urn beyond just getting their wedding photos two weeks late. Now, this is a really, like admittedly ridiculous example. There are other, much more realistic things that could come up. Um, like, you know, someone being injured or something like that, Um, on site. But the point is that a limitation of liability clause, you want to agree up front what your maximum liability is going to be. So if these other things you know happen as a result that you can't guess you're not going to be responsible for all the dominos that fall down. So I would say those are the most important clauses to have in your contract. They're short, Not certainly not the only ones. Um, you know, But they're they're the most important.

spk_0:   30:46
Awesome. That was so thorough. And I'll be honest, I don't have some of those things in my contract, so we're to be changing that, and I will not d i y it I will go get it from you. But I did have a couple questions that came to mind. And one of them is I know that there are several people thinking I just started. I don't have very many clients. Do I really need a contract right now? What would you tell them?

spk_1:   31:14
You don't want to work with anyone without a contract. If you don't have a contract, then you're not ready to take a client.

spk_0:   31:21
Okay? I love it straight to the point. And it's so true because here's they were gonna have a nightmare client at some point. Okay, It happens to everybody. And I would hope that you guys have yourself protected. That's literally all it is. You are. The way I see it is when I give someone a contract, I am telling them I am legit. I'm a professional. I'm protecting myself. A cz Well, a cz you because I realized the money you're paying me is an investment. And I want you to know that your investment is protected and that I really am operating a business and not just a side hustle or hobby. So that's how I think of it. And the barrier to

spk_1:   32:01
entry is meaning, like the all the business costs that you're going to incur to start a photography business are, you know, compared to other businesses that you could start are relatively low, it's going to be your equipment, mostly right, your photography equipment and then the other main expense should be your contract. You need a good camera and probably editing software and a contract. Those were the things that you need. So before you go investing into a website and logo design, those are things that can wait until later.

spk_0:   32:35
I agree 100%. So the last question that 1/2 for you about contracts are a lot of the things that we lay out in our contract, regardless of if we have a good one or not, a good one. At this point, I know we all Hey, won't see our clients take our photo edit. The photo were alter it in some way. That is actually something that the majority of us do have lined out in our contract. If I question it is, and I see it everywhere, how do we enforce these things on our clients without overstepping, like a boundary or being rude? Because I know that this is like a huge pain point that every person on here has had someone do. Yeah, and so a lot of how

spk_1:   33:22
to navigate that is really more, um, business advice. Really? And, you know, like like client management than legal advice. So legally, you know, that's it. A copyright issue. So they've altered on the image, and they didn't have the rights to do that from the license you gave them. So, you know, if you were to not care about customer service or anything like that, you could just send them a letter that says that you demand that they take this photo down because it's in violation of, um, you know this clause in your contract relating to their copyrights and the license that they were extended from a, you know, more relation A ll point of view. The way that I would handle that is to contact them and remind them, you know, like in start, start with, you know, like you're boiling a pot of water. So you started, you know, and it's just starting to warm up. And you you increasingly add more heat as a client doesn't respond. Your and that's true for any kind of dispute that you have with the conflict. So begin in a, you know, polite way. So, um hey, Sally, you know, saw that you posted the wedding photo and made some alterations to it like, I was so glad to be a part of your great day, but your big day. But I just want to remind you, you know, as we agreed in the contract, you're actually not allowed to do that. So if you wouldn't mind taking it down like, I greatly appreciate that, you know, and start there and then, you know, you may need to ratchet it up a CZ you go. And of course, there's, um, you know, with any decision to sue someone or take legal action or make a threat of that or anything. There's a relational cost to that, you know. And so you always have to consider from relation Aly and money wise. Is this worth pursuing? And so you just ask yourself that state that question as you turn up the heat?

spk_0:   35:15
Yes, and I think the majority of us end up letting it go for the, you know, for the fact that we do respect our clients, and I just think that's That's the one gray area unfortunately for photographers, is that the number one offense I see happen, but a lot of us just don't want to say anything about it. We'll say, I mean, well, vent about it, right? But we're we're not going to approach them. But I was just curious what you would suggest on that. So all of this was amazing. Definitely the best presentation I've ever heard of. Thes particular topics so good. I so appreciate that. Where can people get more information on the service? Is you provide but also connect with you online?

spk_1:   36:01
Sure, so I have. My website is contract ista dot com. So that's C o N t r a c T. I s t a contract ista dot com on. And then, if you have any questions for me directly, I have a private Facebook group, and that's probably the easiest way to pop in and ask a question. And that's called on her way up. So it's a group of, Well, it's for female entrepreneurs. If you're a male photographer, you're also welcome to join us in on her way up.

spk_0:   36:30
Perfect. Thank you so much. This was so, so good. Um, I hope people listen again and take notes because this is definitely something you want to take notes for. And also, I would love to direct them over to your web site to check out what you have going on and to make sure that their business is up and that their legal and protect kids Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thank you so much for having me if you haven't already. When you were loving this podcast, would you take just a second and hit that subscribe button? This will automatically deliver new episodes to your phone every Thursday. And if you want to go above and beyond, I would love for you to leave an honest rating and review. This helps other photographers find the show and get the support they need. Thank you so much for listening, and I'll meet you back here next week.